Transcript: 35th Extra-Ordinary Council Meeting

Opening, notice of meeting and moment of silence

00:00:00land and every building or part of the building under the Legislature's control including a) the Chamber in which the proceedings of Council are conducted and the galleries and the lobbies of the Chambers, b) Committee rooms and other meeting places provided or used primarily for Council's purposes, c) every other building or part of a building provided or used in connection with the proceedings of Council while so used, and d)

00:00:30every part of the building in which the Chambers are situated and every forecourt, yard, excuse me, enclosure or open space appurtenant thereto. Number two: insofar as it may be necessary in a case where Council or Committees convene beyond the seat of Council, these rules apply as if the premises where Council or Committees are meeting were within the precincts of Council.

00:01:08Uh, good morning, Councillors. It is hereby notified that the 35th extraordinary Council meeting of the City of Johannesburg Municipality will be convened on Friday, the 21st of February 2025 virtually through Microsoft Teams at 10:00 a.m. And the first item on the agenda is opening.

00:01:30Thank you, Secretary to Council. Executive Mayor of the City of Johannesburg, Councillor Sello Morero. Whip of Council, Councillor Nkosiphayo Zungu. Chair of Chairs, Councillor Vonani Marema. All political party leaders and Whips. Members of the Mayoral Committee. Chairpersons of the Section 79 Committees. Fellow Councillors. Acting City Manager, Mr. Tshepo Makola. Secretary to Council,

00:02:00Mr. Andile Gobinca. Officials of the City of Johannesburg. Residents of the City of Johannesburg. Members of the media. Ladies and gentlemen, I welcome you all to the 35th extraordinary Council meeting of the City of Johannesburg Municipality. Councillors, as you are all aware that we have lost one of our Councillors, Councillor Zakes Mathe of the African National Congress,

00:02:30can we please observe a moment of silence in his honour.

Attendance roll call by party

00:02:43Eh, thank you very much Secretary to Council. Good morning to yourself and the Speaker and all the other councillors connected on this platform. All eh, AIC councillors are present. We are 100% present. Thank you. The two of us.

00:03:01Yeah, just say two. Just say they are two, man. 100% is confusing. Two, you are only two.

00:03:08100%.

00:03:10Thank you councillors. Can we proceed to COPE?

00:03:15There's the 50% I think.

00:03:17Thank you Secretary to Council. Congress of the People, COPE, in full attendance, John Mokome, thank you.

00:03:27Thank you Councillor. Proceed to UDM.

00:03:33Good morning Secretary to Council, to the Speaker and all councillors. The UDM is present.

00:03:41Okay. AHC.

00:03:45Thank you very much um, Secretary of Council. The AHC is present. Thank you.

00:03:53Noted Councillor. Thank you. Eh, can we move to GOOD?

00:04:00Good morning Secretary to Council. Good morning eh, Speaker. Good morning all councillors. GOOD is present.

00:04:11Can we move to eh, UIM? Thank you Councillor.

00:04:16Good morning Secretary. Good morning Madam Speaker and every colleague. UIM is present.

00:04:25Thank you Councillor. APC.

00:04:37Okay, an apology was submitted. Eh, can we move to ATM?

00:04:44Um, ATM present um.

00:04:51Thank you Councillor. Eh, can we then revert back to ANC?

00:05:00Thank you very much. Good morning um, eh, Speaker. On ANC that I can verify is 49. Others are still struggling, but I'll send the final list. That's 49 I can confirm. Thank you.

00:05:18Thank you. Noted eh, Councillor.

00:05:31Secretary, it's Councillor De Lange here.

00:05:36Yes, you may proceed Councillor.

00:05:38Thank you. Just for the record, the old man is struggling today. I got a new cell phone and I'm struggling to load to download Teams onto my new device. So, I'm using my daughter's MS Teams today. So, if you see Gabriella Hannah De Lange, then it is Councillor De Lange. Um, apologies for that.

00:06:01Noted. Noted Councillor.

Quorum announced

00:06:24Thank you Secretary to Council. Councillors, please note that there are 189 councillors present. As a result, there is quorum and the meeting will continue.

Applications for leave of absence

00:06:39Eh, councillors, we proceed to application for leave of absence.

00:06:47We have received the following apologies: MMC M. Arnolds due to urgent council business, Councillor P. Smit due to urgent private business, Councillor C. Boer due to urgent private business and Councillor Mokoena due to urgent private business. Are there any further apologies? I will ask the whips of each caucus to submit any other apologies because we cannot see hands that are raised online.

00:07:42Sorry Speaker, do you want us to submit now or in writing?

00:07:47Please submit now, but before you do that, we need to confirm something. Councillor Mhlongo, you mentioned that there's two from your political home, but MMC Arnolds submitted an apology. So, please rectify. Is it two?

00:08:05Let me rectify, Madam Speaker. Okay. Thank you so much Speaker. Let me rectify because she connected and she went out because she said she had already sent the apology to you. So, as you are speaking, I was just speaking to her outside the meeting. No, she's not available. She's committed to another council business. Thank you. So, it's only myself from AIC. Thanks.claim

00:08:28Which means it's not 189, it's 188 councillors that are present. We still form quorum, colleagues. Councillor Avant-Smith, do you have apologies from your side, from the Democratic Alliance?

00:08:44Yes. Good morning Speaker. Good morning everyone. Um, we have Councillor Fourie-Shawe, Councillor Mnisi and Councillor Dewes who are um, LOA, and Councillor Echeozonjoku will be um, arriving late. Thanks very much.claim

00:09:06Thank you Councillor Avant-Smith. Councillor Dammie, do you have any apologies from the ANC?

00:09:14Um, thank you Speaker. Um, I have none.

00:09:19Thank you Councillor Dammie. Councillor Lebatlang, do you have any apologies from ActionSA?

00:09:31Hi Speaker, our secretary is online, she will note the apologies. Jane, can you come in?

00:09:38Morning Speaker and councillors. Um, yes, I have two leave of absences. Councillor Ayanda Mchunu on maternity leave and then Councillor Esmé Liebenberg who is sick. Thank you.

00:09:53Thank you Councillor Durand. Councillor Moepi from EFF, do you have any apologies?

00:10:00Not Moepi, Mogapi.

00:10:03No, I don't have any apologies. Maybe Councillor Mogapi would have, you know. Thank you.

00:10:10Thank you Speaker. No apologies, only Councillor Raseruthe that is struggling to log in. Can anyone please assist? Thank you.

00:10:20Noted Councillor. Apologies for butchering your surname. Councillor Makhuba from IFP, do you have any apologies?

00:10:29No Speaker.

00:10:32Noted, thank you. Councillor Simonse from the Patriotic Alliance, do you have any apologies?

00:10:39Good morning Speaker. Yes, only Councillor Kaldine that is away on urgent private business. Thank you.

00:10:47Okay, noted. ACDP, they are here. Freedom Front Plus, Councillor De Lange, do you have any apologies except for Councillor Boer and Councillor Smit? I think actually we do have uh all your members' apologies, so I'll skip you. I'll go to minorities. Are there any apologies except for the two councillors that we noted?

00:11:19Nothing.

00:11:21Councillors, as I've said from our side, we cannot see any hands that are raised. So, we'll continue with business of the day. If there's no other apologies, can we approve the apologies as submitted?

00:11:36Approved. Approved. Approved. Approved. Approved. Approved.

00:11:43SesothoKe approve-ile. Ke approve-ile.

00:11:45Thank you.

00:11:47SesothoMadam Speaker, wa approve-a.

Recommendations to Council: CCTV by-law item opened

00:11:50Thank you councillors. We now on recommendations to Council. We'll deal with that item.

00:12:01Councillors, we're on recommendation to Council, as Secretary of Council has stated on record. Is the Executive Mayor, Councillor S. Morero online?

00:12:29Maybe the Executive Mayor is struggling. MMC Masuku?

00:12:51Chair of Chairs, Councillor Marema?

00:12:56Yes Speaker. I didn't get that.

00:13:03Recommendations to Council, item number three, Chair of Chairs.

00:13:11Oh, thank you very much Speaker. I rise to table the legislature reports. Thank you.

00:13:19Thank you Councillor.

00:13:24On recommendations eh, councillors, we have one item, which is the report of the Public Safety Committee on public participation process for the CCTV by-law.

Member in charge presents the CCTV by-law report

00:13:36We'll start with our member in charge, Councillor Wissler.

00:13:42Thank you Speaker. The portfolio [inaudible] on public safety has received a total of 30 submissions regarding the proposed CCTV by-law, the majority of which provided vulnerable valuable inputs, recommendations and requests for clarity. Key themes that emerged from the public safety from the public engagement process include transparency and public engagement. Many queries sought reassurance on how the by-law would ensure openness and community involvement.claim

00:14:15Crime prevention versus broader benefits: stakeholders highlighted the potential of the CCTV beyond crime prevention, advocating for its role in combating insurance fraud, asset recovery and overall urban management. The legal and privacy considerations: concerns were raised regarding compliance with the data privacy laws, the POPIA Act, and possible conflicts between the by-law and national legislation, which it does uh it does um comply with.

00:14:44Madam Speaker, from my observations, these inputs reflect a broad range of stakeholder priorities, including public safety, economic development, privacy protection and operational feasibility. A clear and recurring theme in this need for a balanced, inclusive and practical regulation that protects the interests of businesses, residents and the City of Johannesburg municipality. This marks a significant step forward in enhancing safety, security and governance in the City of Johannesburg. Thank you.

UDM debate: CCTV by-law and safety of councillors

00:15:23Thank you member in charge. UDM, Councillor Zigebe.

00:15:36Thank you uh Madam Speaker, the Executive Mayor, Chief Whip of Council, Chair of Chairs, fellow chairpersons of Section 79 committees, fellow councillors and the residents of Johannesburg. I rise on behalf of the United Democratic Movement and Minority Governing Parties, not just to debate policy, but to sound an alarm on the safety of our communities and those who serve them. The implementation of the CCTV by-laws is a step in the right direction, but the brutal assassination of Councillor Zakhele Mathe reminds us that legislation alone is not enough. We must act decisively to protect our leaders,claim

00:16:13our residents and our city. Johannesburg is under siege, Madam Speaker, from crime and criminals uh which are emboldened by the lack of surveillance, accountability and enforcement. The CCTV by-laws provide a necessary framework to regulate and register private CCTV cameras monitoring public spaces, ensuring that footage can be used for crime prevention and investigation; grant law enforcement agencies access to CCTV footage, helping JMPD and SAPS to track criminal activities and strengthen prosecutions;

00:16:48protect privacy rights by ensuring compliance with POPIA, balancing security with civil liberties. Criminals, Madam Speaker, they thrive where there are no witnesses, but with the expansion of CCTV, we are creating a city where crime has nowhere to hide. Yet, even as we now as we move to protect public spaces, we must confront a disturbing reality: those of us who serve are becoming targets.

00:17:17The cold-blooded assassination of Councillor Zakhele Mathe is not just an attack on an individual, it is an attack on democracy itself. It sends a chilling message that those who fight for their communities do so at a great personal risk. Let us be honest, councillors are on the front lines of service delivery. We mediate disputes, expose corruption and challenge criminal elements in our communities. And for this, we receive death threats, intimidation and in cases like Councillor Mathe's, assassination.

00:17:47If criminals can murder a councillor with impunity, what does that say about the safety of ordinary citizens? How do we expect residents to trust us to protect them when we ourselves are not protected? If we believe in the CCTV by-laws as a tool for crime prevention, then we must extend their protections to councillors. This means CCTV surveillance in and around councillors' workplaces, council chambers and other high-risk areas;

00:18:13a security framework for councillors under threat, including risk assessments, emergency response mechanisms and protection for those identified as targets; immediate prioritization of investigations into attacks on councillors, ensuring that those responsible are arrested and prosecuted without delay. We cannot allow Johannesburg to become a city where councillors are murdered in cold blood while we stand by and do nothing. If we have the political will to regulate CCTV for public safety,

00:18:43then let us also have the courage to protect those who serve in public office. Let Councillor Zakhele Mathe's death be a turning point, not just another tragedy, not just another statistic, but a wake-up call for all of us to take action, demand protection and ensure justice. UDM and MGP approves the report. I thank you.

DA request for a caucus break refused

00:19:06Thank you Councillor Zigebe. DA, Councillor Maila.

00:19:16Madam Speaker, it's Councillor Rahn here.

00:19:22Yes, Councillor Rahn.

00:19:24Please could you indulge the DA caucus for a 10-minute caucus break just to iron out one or two details on this item, please?

00:19:39Councillor Rahn, um we already started with the debate.

00:19:45We need to just iron out one or two details on this within our caucus. If you could please indulge us for 10 minutes.

00:19:55Okay, what we can do, Councillor Rahn, because the debate has been opened already, so we can put uh Councillor Maila to be the last person to speak before the MMC comes in. That's what I can do. But because the floor has been opened already and people started debating this issue, I can't grant you a caucus break in the middle of a debate that's been opened. So, I'll go on to the next speaker, which is ActionSA, Councillor Durand.

ActionSA debate: CCTV by-law

00:20:25Thank you very much for that indulgence. Thanks Madam Speaker.

00:20:31Thank you Madam Speaker. Good morning Mr. Mayor, Madam Speaker, councillors and most importantly, the residents of Johannesburg, all protocol observed. Today I rise on item one with pride and gratitude, knowing that we have all achieved something so important, making Johannesburg a safer, more secure city for all. Starting on the 29th of February 2024, it was gazetted for public participation. Following two successful meetings, we have successfully brought forward the proposal to expand and enhance our use of CCTV cameras for crime preventionclaim

00:21:03and monitoring hotspots. While it has cost implications, I believe these will outweigh the saving of cost in protection of infrastructure and lives. As we all know, Johannesburg, our economic hub and vibrant cultural center, faces many challenges when it comes to crime. Whether it's petty theft, violent crime or vandalism, the threat to safety of our citizens remains ever present. While the efforts of our JMPD are commendable, we must recognize the role of technology in advancing public safety.

00:21:33This is where CCTV cameras come in, not as a replacement for our dedicated officers, but as a powerful tools to complement their efforts. Let us first acknowledge the obvious benefit: crime prevention. CCTV cameras will hopefully be a deterrent for criminals when they know they are being watched. They would less likely be engaged in excuse me, they would less likely engage in illegal activities. The simple presence of these cameras sends a clear message: you are being watched

00:22:03and you will be arrested. In fact, studies from cities around the world have shown that areas with CCTV surveillance experience a reduction in crime rates. This is the kind of environment we want to foster here in Johannesburg, one where people feel safe to walk and drive in our streets day and night, visit our businesses and not sit in traffic because our traffic lights, street lights have been vandalized and stolen. CCTV cameras don't just deter crime, they aid in real-time monitoring of high-risk

00:22:33areas or hotspots. I ask Council to have participation from all councillors in placing these cameras. Johannesburg, with its bustling business centers, busy intersections and densely populated areas, is ripe for such an initiative. The ability to monitor these hotspots in real time means that law enforcement can respond quickly, preventing crimes before they escalate and ensuring that offenders are caught promptly. Moreover, CCTV footage provides valuable evidence that can help in the investigation

00:23:03and prosecution of criminals. These recordings can make the difference in the successful conviction of these thieves and vandals that plague our city, not to mention the innocent family hit by a drunk driver. In the event of crime, CCTV footage can help identify suspects, determine circumstances of a crime and support the efforts of our law enforcement officers in building stronger, more effective cases. Another benefit that I would like to highlight is the role of CCTV in

00:23:33enhancing public trust. The monitoring of public spaces, we are not only protecting people from crime, but also fostering a sense of confidence in the system. Citizens who know that their safety is being actively protected are more likely to trust the institutions that serve them, to engage with local law enforcement and to take ownership of their neighborhoods. In the long run, this leads to stronger community cooperation and a greater sense of shared responsibility and safety for all.

00:24:03I would like to express my gratitude on how far we've come. We've been able to bring this crucial proposal to the Council at a time when the need has never been greater. The importance of ensuring that we have a modern, well-equipped and well-maintained system of surveillance cannot be overstated. ActionSA supports and approves the CCTV by-law. Thank you.

EFF debate: CCTV by-law

00:24:29Thank you Councillor Durand. EFF, Councillor Zitha.

00:24:38Thank you very much Speaker. Uh greetings to the EFF President, Julius Sello Malema, uh Regional Chairperson, Sepetlele Raseruthe, uh Chief Whip, Thabiso Mogapi, Honourable Speaker, members of Council and the fellow citizens. The EFF um the Economic Freedom Fighters acknowledge and support the Public Safety Committee report on the public participation process for the CCTV by-law. We recognize the critical role that the surveillance technology can play in improving public safety,

00:25:07preventing crime and ensuring the security of residents across the City of Johannesburg. We note with appreciation that the public was given opportunity to provide input on this by-law through public participation process. The engagement with stakeholders, including businesses and residents, ensures that the by-law is balanced and reflective of the interests of the people. While only 32 submissions were received, the fact that the key concerns were analyzed and addressed demonstrates a commitment to inclusive governance.claim

00:25:38The EFF fully supports initiatives that contribute to the safety and well-being of our people. With crime remaining a major challenge in our communities, well-regulated CCTV systems can serve as a deterrent to criminal activities, assist in evidence gathering and improve the overall efficiency of law enforcement efforts. This by-law will help formalize the use of CCTV cameras, ensuring that they are deployed in a manner that benefits all residents, especially in a crime hotspot.

00:26:13We acknowledge the concerns raised regarding privacy and data protection. It is essential that the implementation of CCTV cameras align with Protection of Personal Information Act to ensure that the surveillance does not infringe on individual rights. We are encouraged that the report highlights the need to define responsibility, establish clear operational guidance and ensure compliance with national laws. We appreciate that the report takes into account the economic and administrative impact

00:26:45of by-law on businesses. While compliance measures must be enforced, it is important that businesses, particularly small enterprises, are not unduly burdened. The EFF supports the recommendation that application renewal processes be reviewed to ensure they remain practical and fair. As the EFF, we support this by-law and call for the following: equal distribution of CCTV infrastructure. Surveillance must be prioritized in high-crime areas,

00:27:16including townships and informal settlements, to ensure that all communities benefit from increased security; strict oversight and accountability. The management of CCTV data must be transparent with clear oversight mechanisms to prevent abuse and unauthorized access; collaboration with law enforcement. The integration of CCTV into broader public safety initiatives must be done in coordination with SAPS and Community Policing Forums to maximize effectiveness.

00:27:48In conclusion, Speaker, the EFF stands in support of this report um and the CCTV by-law. We believe that a well-regulated and properly implemented surveillance system can be an effective tool in making Johannesburg a safer city for all its residents. Let us ensure that this by-law is executed with fairness, transparency and a commitment to serving the people. Thank you very much Speaker.

00:28:13isiZuluSiyabonga!

ANC debate: CCTV by-law

00:28:17Thank you Councillor Zitha. ANC, Councillor Nair.

00:28:24Uh greetings to you Madam Speaker, the Executive Mayor, MMCs, uh Chair of Chairs, uh the Chief Whip...

00:28:30ANC.

00:28:32Uh can you hear me Speaker?

00:28:34I can hear you now Councillor, you can continue.

00:28:38Thank you. Greetings to you Madam Speaker. Greetings to the Executive Mayor, MMCs, Chair of Chairs, uh the Chief Whip, fellow councillors and residents of the City of Johannesburg. Madam Speaker, the CCTV by-law is long overdue. This is going to enhance our fight against crime. In a city of high crime, this by-law should be implemented immediately. It has been proven that CCTV cameras are a powerful tool in assisting our crime prevention and uh crime prevention structures.

00:29:10This by-law must strike a balance between enhancing public safety and protecting individuals' privacy. The ANC encourages that the introduction of CCTVs must be spread equally across the city. Let us not forget our townships and informal settlements. CCTVs generally can be seen in private homes in the more affluent suburbs, and this is an opportunity for the City of Johannesburg to take crime prevention to the townships and informal settlements.

00:29:39Crime is one of the biggest concerns of all residents of the City of Johannesburg, and the introduction of this by-law and the continued introduction of CCTV cameras all over hotspots will definitely bring back some confidence in the residents of the City of Johannesburg. As the ANC, we totally endorse this uh by-law and support it totally. I thank you, bye.

DA delay and speaking-time query; Maila withdraws

00:30:04Thank you Councillor. I'll go back to the DA, Councillor Maila.

00:30:28Councillor Rahn, is Councillor Maila online?

00:30:38They're still on caucus, Madam Speaker.

00:30:39Uh Speaker, sorry, Councillor Santana. Please just give us two more minutes, we'll be back now. Thanks.

00:30:50Two minutes, Councillor Santana.

00:30:53Aha, DA, yoh!

00:31:01They don't read reports, these ones.

00:31:06Read more than you do.

00:31:11Yes, they are planning to take you to court.

00:31:15Speaker, please call the caucus uh the uh caucus to order on this.

00:31:22Council.

00:31:23Sorry, Council.

00:31:26Councillors, uh is that Councillor Avant-Smith?

00:31:29Yes, it is.

00:31:32Are you back from caucus?

00:31:34Yes, we are back now.

00:31:38Okay, is Councillor Maila online? He can take the floor.

00:31:46Speaker.

00:31:48Madam Speaker, thanks very much. Uh the DA...

00:31:51Speaker.

00:31:53Hold on Councillor Maila. I can't see the other councillor that wants to come in. Councillor?

00:32:00It's Councillor Zigebe, Speaker.

00:32:03Councillor Zigebe, yes.

00:32:07isiZuluUngangena, Councillor.

00:32:08You did not um... Can you hear me?

00:32:14I can hear you now, yes.

00:32:16Since you did not accede to the request for caucus by the DA, I just want to find out if um the two minutes they asked for, does it account on their time, on their speaking time?

00:32:35isiZuluCouncillor Zigebe, angithi bathi...

00:32:36they are back. Remember I said...

00:32:38isiZulubathi...

00:32:38two minutes and then when people, councillors were speaking...

00:32:43online and speaking about court cases. Councillor Avant-Smith said spoke out and I asked if they are back and he admitted. He said, yes, they are back. So, they didn't even utilize their 2 minutes. They probably utilized 30 seconds.

00:32:59It wasn't Maile. It was Councillor Avant-Smith. So, if it was Maile,

00:33:03isiZulubesezakhuluma ngaleyo ndaba

00:33:05i-2 minutes and take it from his time, but it was Councillor Avant-Smith and Councillor Santana. So, let's let Councillor Maile present so we can continue, councillors, with business of the day. We only have one item. Councillor Maile, the floor is yours.

00:33:23Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I will make it much easier for you and withdraw from the list. Thank you very much.

MMC for Public Safety responds on the CCTV by-law

00:33:36Noted, Councillor Maile. I'll call the MMC for Public Safety, MMC Tshwaku.

00:33:44That was painful.

00:33:47Good morning, Speaker. Good morning to the Patrotic EFF's party whip, Lele Raseruthe and the caucus members, also the Executive Mayor

00:33:58Councillor Dada Morero and also all the MMCs I'm serving with.

00:34:06Maybe, Speaker, let me just give in terms of the objectives of this bylaw so that we are all in the in the right frame of mind. This bylaw is really to establish a regulatory framework for the installation and the operation and the maintenance of the CCTV cameras within the City of Johannesburg. Its aim is to improve the public safety and the security by facilitating crime deterrence and better law enforcement.

00:34:37It ensures that the responsible management in the surveillance system, preventing misuse and infringement on the privacy rights. It provides transparency in how surveillance technologies are implemented and operated within the city. It's a balanced objective of public safety within the residents' right to privacy in accordance to the national legislation, including the protection of personal information.claim

00:35:06Now, Speaker, in terms of the IIOC, I'm really glad to say that at the end, there's a light at the end of the tunnel because there was a lot of problems that we actually experienced when we took over about two years ago in terms of there was no director there that was able to really steer the whole ship. So, I'm very excited to really report to the council that there is now a very smart, intelligent IIOC director,claim

00:35:36which is now is working on the upgrading of the system. So, this system will be upgraded now as of the end of actually April, meaning that now we'll be able to get a lot of feeds and not only from the Vumacam, but also from the other private cameras out there. So, this bylaw enforcement, it will be able now to tell us where are the other private, you know, CCTV cameras out there so that at least we can request from the private individualsclaim

00:36:10to really for us as JMPD and law enforcement to be able to actually view the footage actually there. So, currently, we have a partnership with the city and Vumacam. And I know that they will have a lot of questions in terms of this bylaw, but we are willing to work with them so that they are able to really, you know, comply because they've been actually assisting in terms

00:36:42of their cameras because we are getting a feed from them, 6,500 cameras. We are able to view them at the IIOC center. So, we are happy about this bylaw. It will give us in them because it says that at the end, whoever is going to operate or is operating now must be able to account to the city. And also, those who are just going to implement these cameras, they must be able to implement them according to the rules.

00:37:14And you know, you cannot just have a camera just being put in an area. So, it will be guided by this, you know, the framework. So, I'm happy that there is a view that let us pass this bylaw. There's an overwhelming support from the councillors to really support this. And we are happy at the Public Safety as well. I think that, Speaker, I'm going to leave it there. We appreciate the support we actually got from

00:37:46the Section 79 Committee and also from all the councillors. What is going to help also, these CCTV cameras, is that we are going to get a lot of data that we can use intelligently to really try and actually combat crime. So, thank you very much, Speaker. We are much appreciated from the Public Safety side. We appreciate the support that we're getting from the council. Thank you very much.

Call for agreement and member in charge closes debate

00:38:17Thank you, MMC Tshwaku. Councillors, we have concluded our debate on this item. The recommendations are on page 1.4. Is the item agreed to?

00:38:34Agreed! Agreed! Agreed!

00:38:36No!

00:38:37Agreed! Agreed! Agreed! Agreed!

00:38:42Agreed! Agreed! Agreed!

00:38:43No!

00:38:44Agreed! Agreed! Agreed, Speaker! Agreed!

00:38:54Not agreed! Not agreed!

00:38:56Agreed! Agreed! Agreed!

00:39:03Do not agree!

00:39:04Agreed! Agreed! Agreed! Agreed!

00:39:13Even the DA, we agree! Even the DA, we agree!

00:39:16Except for the DA. The DA doesn't agree, Speaker.

00:39:21Councillors, please. Order. Order, please, councillors.

00:39:29Madam Speaker, I've raised my hand. It's Councillor Rahn.

00:39:46Madam Speaker, can I speak?

00:39:51Not yet.

00:40:00to kill me right now, but as the member in charge, she's supposed to close this debate. I think we got tricked by the MMC of Public Safety. So, before we agree or disagree, member in charge, please close the debate for us.

00:40:16Thank you, Madam Speaker. No, it's all fine. I'd just like to thank all of the councillors and specifically also the MMC for your inputs. But I would also like to thank the committee for their hard work and dedication and perseverance in ensuring that this critical bylaw is completed. Your efforts have been invaluable in shaping a safer and more secure Johannesburg. I would also like to take a moment to honor and express my deep appreciation for the late Councillor Ian Nonkumbi,

00:40:46the previous chairperson of the committee. His dedication and groundwork on this bylaw paved the way for us to successfully bring this to completion today. His legacy in strengthening public safety continues to guide us, and we are truly grateful for his contribution. I would also like to extend my heartfelt gratitude to the acting Head of Department, Mr. Andries Makubele, for his leadership and dedication in bringing this bylaw to fruition. His commitment has been instrumental in reaching this milestone.

00:41:15In light of these considerations, Madam Speaker, the Portfolio Committee on Public Safety strongly recommends that council approves the CCTV bylaw report and acknowledging the observations outlined in this document. Thank you.

00:41:30Thank you, member in charge, Councillor Wissler. Councillors, for legal purposes, we heard everyone agreeing to this item. So, we are under the assumption that all the different political parties that are represented in this meeting agree with this item. Am I correct?

00:41:48Madam Speaker, I've got my hand raised!

DA and ACDP dissent recorded

00:41:50Yes!

00:41:52Councillor Rahn.

00:41:53Yes, we agree, Speaker. We agree. Madam Speaker, you are very correct.

00:41:57Okay, councillors, let's allow Councillor Rahn to come in.

00:42:01Thank you, Madam Speaker. Please could we note the DA's dissent on this item due to the lack of clarity on how the tariffs and the likes of will be working going forward. That is our only concern about this item. Otherwise,

00:42:19isiZuluHambani e-court.

00:42:20Thank you. Please could you note our dissent. Thank you.

00:42:23isiZuluHambani e-court!

00:42:24You should have debated the item! Nobody debated the item!

00:42:29Thank you, councillors. Councillors!

00:42:33The DA is against progress.

00:42:35Okay. We'll note your dissent, Councillor Rahn, from the Democratic Alliance.

00:42:44Is that the only dissent? Councillors, as I've said before, we can't see any hands.

00:42:51Madam Speaker, my hand is up. Can you please note me?

00:42:55Is it Councillor Harris or De Lange?

00:42:58Harris.

00:42:59Councillor Harris, you can come through.

00:43:03Thank you, Madam. Thank you for the presentations. Please note that the ACDP will be voting against this item. Thank you.

00:43:20isiZuluAbefundisi abafuni i-safety. Hheyi, hhayi kunzima.

00:43:24We depend on prayer.

00:43:26isiZuluNgabe bathandaze kuqala ngaphambi kokuba sife.

Dispute over the 136-vote threshold and online headcount

00:43:31Okay, councillors, I've been advised by Legal that we need 136 councillors to vote in favor of this item. So, as they are noting the dissent, we're trying to tally the numbers. Councillor De Lange, you can come through.

00:43:51Madam Speaker, it was Councillor Simonse.

00:43:57Councillor Simonse, you can come through.

00:43:59Please just add one more. Joburg 9, Councillor Juweira is logged in and we are voting yes on this item. Thank you.claim

00:44:07Councillors, if you are voting in favor, it's fine.

00:44:28Speaker, my hand is up.

00:44:32MMC Masuku, before you come in, it looks like we have to confirm how many people are online so that we get that 136 in order for this item to pass. You can come in.

00:44:44No, you have covered me. I wanted to say the numbers you gave us earlier, Ma'am, were 180 and under the house.

00:44:5288.

00:44:53Online, we are 242. So, that's why I was raising my hand, Ma'am.

00:45:03Okay. No problem. Thank you, MMC. Legal?

00:45:09Speaker, Councillor De Lange. Can I assist?

00:45:17Councillor, you can come through, Councillor De Lange. As I said, we can't see any hands that are raised from our side.

00:45:23Yes. Thank you, Speaker. Speaker, if I can just give guidance here. In the past, on online meetings, we had quite a few of them, when we look at the quorum for the day, then the quorum is set, I think it was 188. Then we continue with a quorum of 188. Then we cannot add any more councillors afterwards, even if they are in the meeting. It's like when we vote and people are outside, we can't wait for them to vote and then come in. That's how we did it in the past.claim

00:46:00So, as I, if I can remember correctly, the councillors present when we started the meeting was 188, but you can ask Legal. Thank you.claim

00:46:11No, you are incorrect, Councillor De Lange. That is incorrect what you are saying. You are misleading the house!

00:46:19There's something wrong in your head!

00:46:20Where's the note about it? It's you!

00:46:22Still, it's so incorrect.

00:46:24We want it to pass!

00:46:25It's Councillor Telekoa!

00:46:26Councillor De Lange, we are going to go through the different political parties and confirm our quorum so that we can get that 136 in order for this item to pass. I'll hand over to the Secretary to Council.

00:46:41isiZuluHawu, uSpeaker wethu madoda.

00:46:46A progressive one.

Party-by-party headcount and positions

00:46:48Councillors, let's quickly run through the quorum once again. Let's start off with DA. Are we still on the number 49?

00:46:59Hello, Speaker. No, we're now on 51. Thank you very much.

00:47:13Can we move to ANC? Are we still on 49?

00:47:21No, Secretary to Council. Like I've indicated, the others were still struggling to join. We are at 59.

00:47:33Nine?

00:47:34Confirmed. Yes.

00:47:36I take it then you are in support of the item?

00:47:40Yes, fully so, we are.

00:47:43All right. Thank you, Chair. ActionSA, are we still 31?

00:47:52Hi. Yes, we're still, okay, thank you, Secretary.

00:47:58Sorry, I'm on ActionSA. Last recorded number was 31.

00:48:05Yes, Secretary to Council, we are still 31.

00:48:08Okay. We move to EFF. Are we still 28?

00:48:15Thank you, Secretary of Council. Yes, we are still 28, and we are in full support of the item since Councillor Raseruthe was struggling. I'll check with him right now. Thank you.

00:48:28Thank you, Councillor. And we move to IFP. Are we still seven?

00:48:36Secretary to Council, yes, we are still seven, and we support the item. Thank you.

00:48:41Thank you, Councillor. PA, are we still eight?

00:48:46Secretary to Council, Councillor Juweira has joined when the debate was on, so we are full nine.

00:48:53Thank you, Councillor. ACDP?

00:48:55And we support the item. Thank you.

00:48:59Thank you, MMC.

00:49:00Noted, Councillor. And ACDP, are we still three?

00:49:04ACDP is still three and

00:49:07Yeah, good day again, Secretary to Council. AHC is still one and we do support the item. Thank you.

00:49:14Thank you, Councillor. COPE, are we still there?

00:49:18Yes, thank you, Secretary to Council. COPE supports. Thank you.

00:49:24Thank you, Councillor. UDM? Are we still there?

00:49:29Yes, Secretary to Council, we support the item.

00:49:33Thank you, Councillor. AIC? Are we still there?

00:49:39Yes, Secretary of Council, the AIC support the items. Thank you.

00:49:45Thank you, Councillor. GOOD?

00:49:49Thank you, Secretary of Council. We are still here and we are supporting.

00:49:54Thank you. UIM?

00:49:59The UIM support the item.

00:50:01Thank you, Councillor. APC? Oh, sorry, there's an apology that was submitted for that. ATM?

00:50:10ATM supports the item.

00:50:14Thank you, Councillors.

00:50:24Thank you, Councillors. Let's give Legal five minutes to confirm our quorum at this current moment in time.

Exchange over DA court remarks

00:50:35isiZuluSpeaker, ngesikhathi sisalindile, i-DA ayihambe iye eHigh Court, iyothola ukulungiselela lapho, danki.

00:50:43Hayi, no, Councillor, no.

00:50:47Speaker, I find

00:50:48isiZuluAbavele baye eMelika man. Abaye eMelika la bahluleka nje [inaudible].

00:50:52Councillors, Councillors, please! Please refrain from speaking about such things. I can't see any

00:50:59This is Councillor Smit.

00:51:01Councillor Smit, you can come in.

00:51:03Speaker, I'm finding it very disrespectful the way we are being spoken about as a caucus in this Council. You know, we have every right to follow the law and these arbitrary comments which are being broadcast are really, really unacceptable. Thank you.emotive

00:51:27We apologize. Don't go to America, then.

00:51:31Ah, Councillors, please, let's respect each other. Let's respect each other so that we can continue with the business of the day. We can't even have an online meeting without fighting with one another.

00:51:42SesothoA ba tsamaye ba ye ko mlungu wa bona.

00:51:54Say Trump is waiting for people.

Tally and result: CCTV by-law report passes

00:52:07or in this meeting, because I'm sitting here with Councillor Wissler. The Democratic Alliance, 51 Councillors noted their dissent. What's with ACDP? ACDP, three Councillors noted their dissent. That's 54. So, 201 minus 54 is 156 Councillors.

00:52:33No, Speaker.

00:52:34Plus me, plus me and Councillor Wissler that are sitting here. So, it's 158 Councillors that are in support of this item. The item passes, colleagues.

00:52:48Hooray!

00:52:51Thank you, Speaker. Thank you. Thank you, Speaker. Thank you, Speaker.

00:52:56isiZuluKuzoba mnandi la, s'khumbuzo.

00:52:58Councillors, we've got announcements.

00:53:00[inaudible] can go to Trump now! Thank you, Speaker, thank you! Trump is waiting for them. [inaudible]

00:53:08We're not We are not done with business of the day. Secretary to Council?

Announcements and adjournment

00:53:12Councillors, we proceed to announcements.

00:53:17Councillors, please be reminded of the Ordinary Council meeting scheduled for next week Thursday, the 27th of February 2025 at 10:00. You will receive the notice and relevant documents in due time. And I've also been informed that for our late Councillor Mathe, there's a memorial service taking place at Power Park at 4:00, if you are available. The funeral is taking place Sunday and the time will be shared with all Councillors through the different Whips representing the different caucuses

00:53:49in our Council chamber. Thank you so much, Councillors, for your presence and deliberation. The meeting is officially adjourned.

00:54:00Thank you, Speaker. Goodbye. Thank you, Speaker. [inaudible]

00:54:13Bye, Speaker. Going to Trump. Bye.

00:54:20isiZulu[inaudible] kanje abantu, uba ngcono.

00:54:21Trump is waiting for them.

00:54:23Bye, thank you, Speaker.